Vintage Zodiacs

Zodiac Talk => General Zodiac Discussion => Topic started by: YuriyV on April 08, 2018, 10:21:50 PM

Title: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: YuriyV on April 08, 2018, 10:21:50 PM
What is Sea Wolf model where this dial came from?
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Butch on April 25, 2018, 07:01:03 PM
Try this: www.ZodiacCatalogs.com (http://www.ZodiacCatalogs.com)
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: YuriyV on July 17, 2018, 05:16:36 PM
There is no this model in catalogs
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Butch on July 17, 2018, 06:27:23 PM
My apologies for that. I don't know why I said that to be honest with you. I have never seen that model before. I have seen lots of the dials but never a finished product.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Ultra-Vintage on July 22, 2018, 11:32:50 AM
My first thought when I saw those is that it had to be from the 1980s, but like everyone else I have never seen a complete watch with that dial.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Butch on July 22, 2018, 01:20:45 PM
80's is as good a guess as any and makes sense. I think when they went bankrupt in the late 90's a lot of stuff that was sitting around got released due to Swiss law. The vendors are allowed to sell off all undelivered stock when that happens so that they suffer less financial losses.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: YuriyV on January 17, 2020, 02:30:18 PM
I made some discovery and observations since last post (in almost 2 years).
Hope they are valid.
Periodically these dials pop up on the market. Usually from European vendors.
Some time after we discussed origin of this dial, another weird Zodiac part hit the market - NOS case with rotating bezel.
Obviously it was intended to be a diver watch. It is marked as 1192-737. The ref number clearly indicates 119 caliber and 737 model. I already knew that Zodiac 119 is Day/Date quartz movement used in mid 1970s Red Dot quartz Sea Wolf 1192 412 and 1192 414 (see them in 1977 Zodiac Catalog on page 15). And pattern of the acrylic bezel insert is almost identical to seldom seen mid 1970s Super Sea Wolf 722 736 and 1342 736.
I made assumption that above 20 ATM Quartz Sea Wolf dial and this 737 case could be related. When one nice Red Dot quartz SW came in to my shop for service, I got its 119 caliber, installed the dial and put everything into the case. It was a perfect fit.
Then I made another assumption and compared this quartz Sea Wold and that Super Sea Wolf. Indeed, their case number are consecutive - 736 (SSW) and 737 (SW). And bezel patterns are same. Probably crowns will match? Sure thing 736 crown matched perfectly to this 737 case!
And finally I'm doing a guess and aligning 736 hands with my "Franken Sea Wolf" (Werewolf?). They look very consistent at least!
So, I'm doing one more guess, this dial was (or intended to be) 1192 736 Sea Wolf. And could be dated around 1977.
How about that?
See more information about this and other SW models in Vintage Zodiac Catalogs  (http://www.zodiaccatalogs.com/) website and "Collecting vintage Zodiac watches" (http://www.vintagezodiacs.com/zforums/index.php/topic,3286.0.html) book
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Ultra-Vintage on January 19, 2020, 12:20:47 PM
I have those dials as well, but have never seen them on an original intact watch.  Mine were purchased in the US many years ago, but not sure where they got them.  If the watch were a similar configuration, I would think that it were later? Early to mid 1980s?  Again, the history of the company around that time is a mystery as it seems the records disappeared somewhere but mid-70s would be before the A Schild/ETA switch over (when ETA acquired them).  I see all of this as a guess, but that is what time-frame my mind would go to.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: YuriyV on January 20, 2020, 01:28:04 PM
Another mystery dial surfacing time to time on the market. I have feeling it is from same time frame.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Butch on January 20, 2020, 03:32:16 PM
Another thought comes to mind about all these parts that we have never seen watches for, let alone any literature. It is possible that Zodiac was going to do something with them when the sale to Dixi occurred... That is what happened when Fossil bought the brand from Genender, everything stopped and was liquidated.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Ultra-Vintage on January 20, 2020, 03:52:54 PM
Another thought comes to mind about all these parts that we have never seen watches for, let alone any literature. It is possible that Zodiac was going to do something with them when the sale to Dixi occurred... That is what happened when Fossil bought the brand from Genender, everything stopped and was liquidated.

Very possible  :agreei
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: YuriyV on January 20, 2020, 04:01:08 PM
Quote
It is possible that Zodiac was going to do something with them when the sale to Dixi occurred...
I support that. Dixi bought Zodiac around 1978 (correct me if I'm wrong). Roughly in the same time Trauner dropped Zodiac on North America market. As I know, it happened sometime after Edward Trauner passed away in June 1976. It explains why all those parts pop up from European vendors only. Because they were not distributed in America anymore. Including later Zodiac models. Like Super Sea Wolf 736 and Sea Wolf 906.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Cobber on January 20, 2020, 04:56:56 PM
Given the seemingly direct evolution the dial and bezel appear to have from the circa '77 Super SW, including the sequential case style number, & that no one hear seems to have ever seen one; that these never made it into production but were on the horizon seems like the best guess to me.

It would be hilarious (and incredible) if Yuri (purely based on Zodiac knowledge and intuition) actually managed to put together an authentic Zodiac design that may not have actually existed beyond a prototype and initial parts manufacturing for a future launch.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: YuriyV on January 21, 2020, 01:05:27 PM
Further investigation under magnification brought some more details. In fact the case is a generic Brevet 503.305
Googling on this, fetched a lot of links to other brands, using the same case. Like Heuer, Jesby, Sandoz, Edox etc.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Cobber on January 22, 2020, 10:45:43 AM
... case is a generic Brevet 503.305
Googling on this, fetched a lot of links to other brands, using the same case. Like Heuer, Jesby, Sandoz, Edox etc.

My first thought when I saw the case was it was it from a nineties' Zodiac Pro.  Maybe it could still be?  Picture's not really the best for comparison purposes.

Yuri, do you have knowledge if the companies you mentioned were using this case in the seventies?

http://www.vintagezodiacs.com/zforums/index.php/topic,1851.msg7944.html#msg7944 (http://www.vintagezodiacs.com/zforums/index.php/topic,1851.msg7944.html#msg7944)

Would be interesting to me to know if it is and if this case design was first intro'd in the seventies?  Turned out to be a pretty successful design with some serious legs if so.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Cobber on January 22, 2020, 11:35:51 AM
Guess I answered my own question.  Case definitely dates back to at least the late seventies.

Hope it's okay I post this link.

http://classicheuers.blogspot.com/2009/01/heuer-844-french-made-diver.html (http://classicheuers.blogspot.com/2009/01/heuer-844-french-made-diver.html)
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Butch on January 22, 2020, 12:12:41 PM
Of course it is Cobber, thanks too.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Cobber on January 22, 2020, 01:32:37 PM
Was just thinking, If Monnin is the correct name of the case manufacturer for this Brevet (patent) they may well be the ones that took over the Super Sea Wolf case manufacturing from EPSA in the mid/late seventies.  This based on the sequential case number designations?

Edit: Strike that, the sequential numbers are Zodiacs model designations not the case manufacturer's.  Confused myself there for a second.  It's easy to do.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: YuriyV on January 22, 2020, 02:43:07 PM
Quote
My first thought when I saw the case was it was it from a nineties' Zodiac Pro.
Cobber,
I think your first thought was right. Believe Zodiac in 1990s still use these cases with minor modifications and cosmetic differences. Very robust design indeed.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: YuriyV on January 22, 2020, 02:52:59 PM
BTW,
Here are some parts, found in France. My informant says, they found a warehouse with several boxes containing Zodiac parts.
Looks like these are from the same era (end of 1970s). Among others we can see a Super Sea Wolf 1342 736 and couple strange chronograph cases. Probably derived from that Brevet 503.305. How many surprises Zodiac left for us?
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Butch on January 22, 2020, 05:19:47 PM
I have seen each of these pop up on eBay now and again over the past 20 years or so.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Ultra-Vintage on January 24, 2020, 12:12:31 PM
Those are all cases I have seen as well, some I have bought and are in the drawers here.  Original genuine stuff does pop up sure, but never believe a European Ebay seller as to their origins.  They all have the found in a "magical warehouse" in France story (not just Zodiac, lots of supposedly vintage parts from other brands), even things they just had made in Hong Kong.....
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: VinSW on February 11, 2020, 11:07:49 PM
Given the seemingly direct evolution the dial and bezel appear to have from the circa '77 Super SW, including the sequential case style number, & that no one hear seems to have ever seen one; that these never made it into production but were on the horizon seems like the best guess to me.

It would be hilarious (and incredible) if Yuri (purely based on Zodiac knowledge and intuition) actually managed to put together an authentic Zodiac design that may not have actually existed beyond a prototype and initial parts manufacturing for a future launch.

Yuri- That is a very rare watch you have there! Knowledge and intuition led you on that path. You finished what Zodiac didn't.    Well done.
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: YuriyV on February 11, 2020, 11:10:23 PM
 :secrethand
Title: Re: Zodiac Quartz Sea Wolf 20ATM
Post by: Butch on February 12, 2020, 07:36:43 AM
 :sam

And the kid in the corner with the Lincoln Logs is making a Frank Lloyd Wright house.

<no slam intended on your skills YuriyV>

It's a Marriage.