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71
I saw this Zodiac on the Internet... / Re: Zodiac Education Never Ends
« Last post by YuriyV on March 08, 2019, 02:49:50 PM »
As found SWs and GMTs were regularly $100 watches on Ebay all day in the early 2000s and the hobby as a whole did not pay much attention to them.  Now that their prices have risen to several times those levels it is finally profitable for aftermarket components to be made.
True. Although whoever ordered this batch in China did a huge fail.
1. 2.2mm GMT bezel fits 925 GMT case as it should. But is too tight. Can't rotate.
2. 2.7mm GMT bezel fits 946 SW case only. Does not fit 934 as we can expect.
3. 2.7mm SW bezel fits nicely 946 SW case. But is plain metal bezel (without Bakelite insert). Never was a standard for SW.

My point is, spending considerable amount of money to something does not fit its purpose is unlikely for people wanting to earn some money counterfeiting original parts. Too obvious. Chinese try to be as close to original as possible.
72
I saw this Zodiac on the Internet... / Re: Zodiac Education Never Ends
« Last post by YuriyV on March 08, 2019, 02:38:59 PM »
The original seller of these offered at least 4 different stories of their origin, none of which I believe.  All were to deflect from the fact that they are not original.  Other people can buy the con for their own profit all they want, but that does not change the original falsehood.

If they are aftermarket, great, sell them to people as aftermarket and let them decide if they want to use them.  That is honest, as Butch said, for someone without a bezel anything is better than nothing.  However, do not continue to sell them as original which in turn has other sellers putting them on watches and selling them to even more people as original.

Totally agree with seller's not honest attitude. But I can interpret it as "false positive". If they indeed acquired this stock from closed store, it is easy to make assumption the parts are original especially if they know nothing about the subject. What else do you expect to get from former official Zodiac service center other than original parts they think? LOL :-)
If they will receive resupply then definitely it is modern knockoff (probably from China). But so far I see they are getting closer to sold out. Will see.
73
I saw this Zodiac on the Internet... / Re: Zodiac Education Never Ends
« Last post by Ultra-Vintage on March 08, 2019, 02:19:21 PM »
Definitely Chinese (I think anyway) and not original in any fashion.
Agree, it is not original. But not mandatory Chinese. I tend to think it is something from European aftermarket from 1980-90. Maybe.
I have some thoughts and something to display later today.

I honestly doubt that.  As found SWs and GMTs were regularly $100 watches on Ebay all day in the early 2000s and the hobby as a whole did not pay much attention to them.  Now that their prices have risen to several times those levels it is finally profitable for aftermarket components to be made.
74
I saw this Zodiac on the Internet... / Re: Zodiac Education Never Ends
« Last post by Ultra-Vintage on March 08, 2019, 02:16:12 PM »
The original seller of these offered at least 4 different stories of their origin, none of which I believe.  All were to deflect from the fact that they are not original.  Other people can buy the con for their own profit all they want, but that does not change the original falsehood.

If they are aftermarket, great, sell them to people as aftermarket and let them decide if they want to use them.  That is honest, as Butch said, for someone without a bezel anything is better than nothing.  However, do not continue to sell them as original which in turn has other sellers putting them on watches and selling them to even more people as original.
75
I saw this Zodiac on the Internet... / Re: Zodiac Education Never Ends
« Last post by Butch on March 08, 2019, 01:50:25 PM »
OK, thanks then. I surely do not know for certain, just my thoughts.
76
I saw this Zodiac on the Internet... / Re: Zodiac Education Never Ends
« Last post by YuriyV on March 08, 2019, 01:35:22 PM »
Definitely Chinese (I think anyway) and not original in any fashion.
Agree, it is not original. But not mandatory Chinese. I tend to think it is something from European aftermarket from 1980-90. Maybe.
I have some thoughts and something to display later today.
77
I saw this Zodiac on the Internet... / Re: Zodiac Education Never Ends
« Last post by YuriyV on March 08, 2019, 01:31:19 PM »
My guess is they chose to do it this way because the use of a spring allows for more tolerance in dimension and would allow them to fit most of the cases using a spring-style by changing spring size etc.

It is interesting that the seller offered two kind of these GMT bezels: regular 2.2mm and this 2.7mm.
First one fits regular 925 case. Second does not fit 925 nor 934. But fits 946.
78
I saw this Zodiac on the Internet... / Re: Zodiac Education Never Ends
« Last post by Butch on March 08, 2019, 01:26:54 PM »
Nope. Deeply hidden these have been appearing on eBay. Definitely Chinese (I think anyway) and not original in any fashion. I have seen GMT and Sea Wolf bezels out there. All made for the spring type application though.

Shoot, if I had enough money I would send them a metal bezel and get a bunch made myself. Only like the originals. Anything is better than nothing! You see many on eBay without the bezel. And I lost count of the folks that have come to me looking for one to replace their lost ones over the past 20 years.
79
I saw this Zodiac on the Internet... / Re: Zodiac Education Never Ends
« Last post by YuriyV on March 08, 2019, 01:20:47 PM »
As I'm aware, these bezels went to the market from closed service center in Europe. Like NOS stock. In quantities of several dozens. Does not look like Chinese production. But definitely look like aftermarket.

In the same time, how you can explain that a normal GMT case (see distinctive grooves on lugs) has spring loaded bezel joint like SW? Otherwise, Chinese produced GMT cases as well.
Once I saw on eBay a 946 Sea Wolf with Bakelite bezel. It looked like regular SW. Except presence of GMT grooves on lugs.
Maybe Zodiac was experimenting with cases/bezels early days? :dh
80
I saw this Zodiac on the Internet... / Re: Zodiac Education Never Ends
« Last post by Ultra-Vintage on March 08, 2019, 01:12:01 PM »
If you got enough money a Chinese company will make you anything you want. Why in the hell the person did not send them a metal bezel is beyond me. They sent them an acrylic bezel and asked that they make metal bezels that are now 3 times as thick as original metal bezels. An you need a spring now.

VZ?

Exactly.  Definitely fake, definitely new manufacture, coming out of Italy like many of the aftermarket items on Ebay these days, but being sold as "original".  My guess is they chose to do it this way because the use of a spring allows for more tolerance in dimension and would allow them to fit most of the cases using a spring-style by changing spring size etc.  The true base metal bezels relying on friction only means they would need to be much more exact and will only fit some cases.
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