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"Zodiac" Chronograph???

Started by Butch, August 12, 2010, 02:21:15 PM

Butch

Take a look at auction 350384462692. Nice piece until you read his comments on it. So I sent him some polite questions:

Help me to understand this. Is that a NOS movement or complete NOS watch? Do you have pictures of the case back and inside? Or can you tell me what it says? Is the movement marked Zodiac as it should be? Thanks. - www.vintagezodiacs.com

His reply? Well, not sure what to make of it, but I do know I am not bidding on what I believe to be a marriage now.

Dear www.vintagezodiacs.com,

no comments.going to do shit else

- alain2522

Just the kind of seller I want to buy from!
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jon p

 >:D i cannot believe you got that kind of response to your questions!!!! really a top seller isnt he! and i am sure a very nice person--LOL.  JON

Yankees76

HAHA that's laziness and belligerence at it's finest!

Butch

#3
Zodiac movements, while purchased as ebauches, were always marked ZODIAC. I just wanted to verify that, along with the fact that the case was made by Zodiac, which was always the case, unless it was made for Tiffany's.

Well, like my grandpa used to say, keeping the money in my pocket is better than putting it in yours. Today I am listening to the old man.
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Sea Wolf

I must win some prize for this response...

"given the poor quality of the items you buy, this very nice watch you are not intended

- alain2522"
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zaniac

Wow, I don't know which response is worse :o
Why does it have two different style hands on the sub-dials? Nice
Chris

Butch

Oh, this is too good to pass up. Everyone reading this thread needs to send him an email with questions to see other answers he will give.

I guess it is true, customer service is dead.
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Sea Wolf

"Watch your culture must stop at the McDonald's advertising watch

your
totally unjustified aggression must come from a mental derangement. I
advise you to consult a doctor quickly

-alain2522"
webmaster
VintageZodiacs.com

Contact me for any technical issues related to the website.

Butch

And it gets better. He ended the auction and stared a new one with more and better pictures and a clearer description, which I think was the "shit else" I asked for in the first place. But now I would not buy it on a bet.

Original: 350384462692
Description:  rare vintage Swiss Chronograph  ZODIAC  Manual  winding Swiss movement  LANDERON 148  Gold plated 10mc. New Old Stock movement perfectly working  diamèter without crown  35 mm  Watch for collectors

New: 350384889532
Description: rare vintage Swiss Chronograph  ZODIAC  Manual  winding Swiss movement  LANDERON 148  . Case  Gold plated 10mc   Back stainless steel signed . dial color champagne signed. Never  Worm  movement perfectly working  diamèter without crown  35 mm  Watch for collectors .old stock of store of clock
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Butch

#9
And then he has this auction, 350384461787, which is very similar to his original Zodiac auction... <sigh> As zaniac pointed out on the Zodiac, note again the two different hands in the registers... Now I am beginning to think they are assembled from parts and not even marriages.
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jon p

 :P :P :P sea wolf, did you go to mcdonalds or the doctor first!? this guy is really a nut case for sure. i am kinda afraid to e mail him, he might blow up my computer..   JON

Butch

#11
Don't be a wuss Jon! Email him and ask him why the hands are different in the two registers.
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Ultra-Vintage

#12
I saw that one when he first listed it and was suspicious of it, but now that he has posted more pics it is a definite.  Totally made up watch.  Like Butch stated, the movement would always be marked ZODIAC on the bridge for one thing.  I guess he did not take the time to pull the bridge off and mark it himself in this case, which I see alot of "aftermarket" bridge engravings on vintage chronographs on Ebay.  Another big red flag is the "authentic" engraving on the inside of the caseback.  If you look at the way it is done, the font is not all uniform, does not have a steady engraving depth, and does not all match.  You can particularly see what I am referring to in the last two S's in Swiss.  The "Zodiac W. Ltd., LeLocle Swiss" is guaranteed to not be original to this caseback.
Additionally, I am not 100% on the dial either.  It is hard for me to tell without seeing it in person, however, the printing does not appear to be quite as crisp as the original would have been.  The form is pretty generic as well, it is a common style used to redo quite a few dials of the era so all they would have to do is print "Zodiac" instead of another swiss name.
We are seeing lots of people being scammed on watches like this.  Chronographs are easy to do because many of the companies had similar cases, dial styles, and used interchangeable bulk ebauches. 

Buyers take the markings on the watch as real, but they fail to consider that if counterfitters are able to fake whole watches then just faking the markings on the watch should be easy (and people are easily fooled even by poorly done examples like this one).  In recent months I have seen either totally made up or partially made up watches that were Longines, Omega, Movado, Rolex, and Breitling that were all from this era.  In nearly every case the person that bought the watch was almost positive that it was totally legit until I pointed out the reasons that it wasnt. 
So the copycats are really putting these fakes out there as the vintage stuff has gotten more and more popular.

reydelaplaya

Butch, I'll take your challenge if Jon won't, as I'm always up for a bit of comedy, and this one definitely shows signs of being a class act. Enclosed below is the question I just emailed him, and I will edit in his response when I receive it.

(Come on Alain, don't let us down now!)

Wow, what a beautiful vintage Zodiac Chrono, and NOS to boot, fantastic! I just have one question about the chrono register hands - has one of them been possibly replaced or repaired? As it looks as if there's a straight hand on the left, and an arrowed hand on the right. Was this possibly the way it was intended? Please let me know when you get a chance, as I'm looking forward to bidding on this incredible watch. Thank you in advance for your time and your response.

jon p

cant wait to see his reply--bet it isnt nice!  JON

Butch

#15
Rey, you are my hero! (Unlike some others who will go nameless... right Jon P?)  :P

Just an FYI to all, when he canceled the first auction and started the 2nd, I wanted to bid $1 on it just to make the BIN go away so no unsuspecting ill informed sap bought it. It seems he has added me to his blocked bidder list... Just for asking a question?
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reydelaplaya

Well gentlemen, I couldn't be more disappointed... I got a response today, but nothing like what we might have expected:

Dear reydelaplaya,

the minute counter always had a needle equipped with an arrow

- alain2522

No comedy here :( unless you count the ambiguity of his statement, which doesn't really address the difference in the hands.

Sorry, guys, thought for sure when I saw I had a message that it was gonna be a zinger! LOL

You let us down Alain, now I'm definitely not bidding on the watch.


Butch

LMAO Rey! Now THAT is a reason not to bid... the seller did not insult me when questioned.
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jon p

 :o someone wanted it REAL BAD--just sold for 504.00!!

Ultra-Vintage

Quote from: jon p on August 20, 2010, 02:20:42 PM
:o someone wanted it REAL BAD--just sold for 504.00!!

I am just shocked.  So many unknowledgeable people out there, and they seem to be more than willing to throw their money away on Ebay mistakes.  You know what they say about a "fool and his money".... 

Sea Wolf

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zaniac

HA, this is the funniest thread I've read in a long time..Butch gets blocked from bidding because he asked a question!!
And Rey doesn't bid because the seller didn't insult him..funny stuff!
Well, to add to the confusion, look at 310242838631
It looks like the right register has the pointing hand and the left register has the straight hand..just like the one alain2522 had for sale.
So this is original?
Chris

bulldog1935

#22
This watch was my birthday present to myself.  I had a snipe set at $505, and it looks like I just got it (and maybe I shouldn't have). 
The second watch in my bid group was a NOS Tissot auto, but not a chrono. 
I actually used the two chronograph examples on the gallery of this website to evaluate what I saw in the sellers photos. 
Now that I have it, right up front, it has an acrylic crystal. 
I've looked at the outside at least with a microscope.  There are a few light scratches on the dial.  The hands are all beautiful blued steel and no question a matched set.  The face of the watch is rose gold. 
May not be an investment, but I'm happy with my purchase, since it's the prettiest watch I've ever seen. 
The chrono doesn't function as I've read a Landeron 148 should; the top button is both start/stop and the bottom button is reset.  I've read that the bottom button on a Landeron should be stop/reset.  Very crisp movement, the minutes on the chrono jump rather than sweep. 
quick shot off the copystand - reflections aren't good, but color is right


By way of introduction, I've been buying Zodiac watches since an SST I bought on the ship's store of CV66 USS America, eastern Med, '76. 
My daily wear is an astrographic 2000. 

I smoke cigars, fish vintage cane and venerable glass fly rods, collect and rebuild between-the-wars fly reels. 

p.s. - here's another with the same movement - unsigned - and the same register hands
http://cgi.ebay.com/ZODIAC-WWII-CHRONOGRAPH-MANUAL-SWISS-MENS-WRIST-WATCH_W0QQitemZ280516917207

I don't know if I had read this thread first whether I would have followed through with the snipe and purchase (might have lowered my snipe and lost).  After watching the seller a bit, I also noticed we're onto an MO for him - "everything is NOS for collectors". 
You might like the feedback I left him: 
Quotegorgeous restoration, quick shipping, gains 2 min/day 40 years in a watch shop?
   Shotguns and flyreels are jewelry for men

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