Zodiac Talk => General Zodiac Discussion => Topic started by: microdel on September 20, 2010, 10:14:09 am

Title: EUROPEAN MODEL
Post by: microdel on September 20, 2010, 10:14:09 am
Hi-

Earlier this year I asked some experts about the existence of a square faced Zodiac brand moon phase watch.  They assured me that Zodiac only made a round faced model.  But I have in my possession a photo of a watch that says "Zodiac" on its face without the crossed-circle emblem.  It is square faced and has the moon phase area at the bottom).  See attachment.

So the watch apparently does exist.

If anyone know of this type of Zodiac watch, can you tell me if it only comes in a white face or if it is also available in a darker faced model, as well?

Thanks for any assistance.

Mike
Title: Re: EUROPEAN MODEL
Post by: Butch on September 20, 2010, 10:57:15 am
I do not think that is a Zodiac. I have catalogs from the 50's, 60's, & 70's, and none of them shows a square 3DMP. Additionally, Zodiac movements were branded as Zodiac. That is to say that they bought A. Schild ebauches, brought them in house and put Zodiac marked bridges and/or rotors on them, at least during the above periods anyway.

I saw that watch when it was for sale on eBay and passed on it. While very nice I do think the redialer simply put the incorrect brand name on the dial when they redid it. Along with forgetting to put the 1-31 dates on the dial.  ;D

FWIW, this is just my opinion based on my experiences. UV, as a watchmaker, do you have anything to add here?
Title: Re: EUROPEAN MODEL
Post by: jon p on September 20, 2010, 05:44:52 pm
 :( sure doesnt look like any zodiac i have ever seen! i wonder how you tell what the date is!? BUYER BEWARE---slick dealers can make up ANYTHING they want, and this looks like they did.
Title: Re: EUROPEAN MODEL
Post by: Yankees76 on September 21, 2010, 02:14:11 pm
:( sure doesnt look like any zodiac i have ever seen! i wonder how you tell what the date is!? BUYER BEWARE---slick dealers can make up ANYTHING they want, and this looks like they did.

Agree - looks like someone got creative with some spare parts. Still it actually looks okay considering it's probably a fake - though I'd never buy it thinking I had a legit Zodiac. As Butch noted the unsigned movement raises a red flag....
Title: Re: EUROPEAN MODEL
Post by: microdel on September 21, 2010, 02:24:46 pm
Thanks to everyone here for lending your expertise to my question.  I think it is safe to say that this is not a legit Zodiac model.  I hadn't even noticed that the face is missing a window for the date to appear! LOL!  That was a dead give away, I guess.

Mike
Title: Re: EUROPEAN MODEL
Post by: jon p on September 21, 2010, 05:10:39 pm
 ;D MIKE--this type movement is supposed to have the numbers 1-31 around the outside of the dial and the date hand points to the date. on a triple date there is no date window. when they did the redial, as butch pointed out, they left off these numbers.  JON P
Title: Re: EUROPEAN MODEL
Post by: microdel on September 21, 2010, 05:15:53 pm
Hi-

OK.  I get it now.  The arrow points to the actual date on the normal face of this watch, which is not a Zodiac, nor does Zodiac make such a watch, correct?

Thanks again!

Mike
Title: Re: EUROPEAN MODEL
Post by: Ultra-Vintage on September 21, 2010, 07:14:10 pm
I do not think that is a Zodiac. I have catalogs from the 50's, 60's, & 70's, and none of them shows a square 3DMP. Additionally, Zodiac movements were branded as Zodiac. That is to say that they bought A. Schild ebauches, brought them in house and put Zodiac marked bridges and/or rotors on them, at least during the above periods anyway.

I saw that watch when it was for sale on eBay and passed on it. While very nice I do think the redialer simply put the incorrect brand name on the dial when they redid it. Along with forgetting to put the 1-31 dates on the dial.  ;D

FWIW, this is just my opinion based on my experiences. UV, as a watchmaker, do you have anything to add here?

You have pretty much said it all! ;D  Definitely not a Zodiac, and a unfinished redial to be sure. 
I have seen watches nearly identical to that one, and they are always way-way off-brand names that use Swiss Movements and extremely cheap plated cases.  When they decided to do a redial they wanted to try and use a name with a little more recognition, even though nothing else about the watch supports it.
Title: Re: EUROPEAN MODEL
Post by: jon p on September 21, 2010, 09:55:13 pm
MIKE---check the gallery section under moon and calendars to see what a real zodiac triple date moon phase is supposed to look like. by the way, let me welcome you to the best watch forum on the web. if you havent been bitten by the zodiac collecting bug yet ,just hang around here and you will be!!! JON P