Thinking Vintage Zodiac

[rplace]

Hey all, great site. Thanks for all the good info!

I Have had the watch bug for a while, got serious a few years back. Starting to think about a vintage piece and in looking at Breitling, Omega, Doxa, Wakmann, etc. I stumbled upon a few Zodiac's l like. They seem like a winner in value and I dig the look of many.

Kind of have my eye on variants of the GMT and the World Timer in particular. Hard to really nail down what is a "fair" price. Not nearly as many completed auctions on ebay nor old TZ postings.

I am not a serial flipper, tend to buy a watch and keep it...but still don't want to fall in love with one and over pay for it just in case it does not stick once on the wrist and I do need to sell it.

So, can you give me a rough range of what a decent GMT should go for? Guess I would tend to be looking at the ones in better condition as I have zero ability to restore one. Want one that can be worn right out of the gate not a project. I know condition and recent service will be the biggest drivers so probably looking for what the mid to upper range one should expect to pay would be. Also interested to know if there are any things that are must aviod.

Thanks an go easy on the new guy!

Best, Rich

[Butch]

http://www.vintagezodiacs.com/zforums/index.php/topic,1490.0.html

This one just sold and had no band. Fully restored.

[rplace]

I saw that earlier in my travels through this site...a real beauty. Being new to the vintage game I am having a hard time trying to figure out the break even point between buying a project watch and one that already has been restored. I see some real lookers that are fixed up (just about all in your for sale section Butch) and have seen some nice before and after results. Still I am not sure if I have the stomach for or knowledge to buy one that "looks" bad and know that it will look nice when done. All part of the fun I guess.

[L. Ocle]

http://www.vintagezodiacs.com/zforums/index.php/topic,1490.0.html

This one just sold and had no band. Fully restored.

And was it over-paid???



Welcome, Rich. Butch watches for sale are usually winners, that's a fact. Another question is that you like them or not.

Always think about the size, if you are not used to vintage watches. Some of this GMT or Sea Wolf looks very nice -and they are-  but if you like today's sizes you may think you have a new freckle in the wrist instead or wearing a watch...

[rplace]

And was it over-paid???



Welcome, Rich. Butch watches for sale are usually winners, that's a fact. Another question is that you like them or not.

Always think about the size, if you are not used to vintage watches. Some of this GMT or Sea Wolf looks very nice -and they are-  but if you like today's sizes you may think you have a new freckle in the wrist instead or wearing a watch...

I totally hear you. That is part of what I am wresting with. So hard not being able to try one on. That is why I want to make sure I am not over paying just in case I have to turn around and resell it in short order.

Thanks!

[smithrjd]

The Sea Wolf and Aerospace GMT are smaller than most "new" watches. To me they also wear very nice, not as heavy and I have a large wrist. Prices are all over the board. Dealers will want $750+ but they for the most part will be serviced. Auctions are cheaper but it is buyer be ware. Some franken watches most will have a replacement band, and maybe serviced or not. hands dials and bezels not correct. Zodiacs at least the Sea Wolf and variants have a known issue with the cannon pinion. A servicing can cost $300 or more for one that has issues. Omegas can be a real crap shoot many many more franken watches. Brietlings and Doxa not quite as much by they will all be more expensive than a Zodiac, and servicing can be $500 and up depending on the watch. (complications) From what I have seen a good Zodiac is normally in the $300 to $600 range. I got lucky and got an early GMT for $150, but I have yet to have it serviced.   

[TJW]

I've gone both ways - pay more for the great ones and less for the fixer-uppers - I recommend the pay more up front way. Unless you are a watchmaker(I'm not), it's only a guess on how much repairs may be..of course that can happen with one that is advertised as being in good shape also. My advice is to buy the seller i.e. only deal with reputable guys (such as Butch).

[smithrjd]

Absolutley know the seller or look at feedback. Watches from the eastern block ,South America, and Asia can be a real problem. The bottom line is that you need to know what you are considering. Omega, Breitling, and Doxa much more than Zodiac. It is real easy to get burnt. They are out there, but you have to know what it is that you are looking at.  Post questions on this forum for Zodiac, there are forums for Omega and Brietling as well. From what I have seen watches in the "for sale" areas of brand forums are likely to be better and better represented than what one will see on auction sites.

[jon p]

           buy one already restored, parts for the old zodiacs can be very hard to impossible to locate!  it costs more to begin with but in the long run it is WELL worth it, you get a watch ready to wear, not something that lies in a drawer for years waiting for that replacement part to make it run or look finished! sea wolf/ gmt bezels are a good example--very hard to find, especially in decent condition, and in decent condition  they bring almost the cost of a complete watch!! believe me, been there done that, NEVER AGAIN! butch sells beautiful watches that have been restore by BWG. THE BEST.  BWG also sells restored watches, check him out also.

[rplace]

Thanks for all the info guys, did not realize parts were so hard to find. Prior to my Zodiac quest I have looking at many vintage Breitlings and there are tons of them out there if you have the $$$ and lots of cottage industries fixing them up. Seems pretty easy to get a nice one ready to wear or parts/service if needed. Guess I will be looking for one ready to wear. Let's see some wrist shots of Sea Wolf, GMT and World Time!!

[Butch]

They are already here, search them out. Sea Wolf has a thing for man's wrist shots.

[Cobber]

Here, I'll make the first one easy for you:

http://www.vintagezodiacs.com/zforums/index.php/topic,1455.0.html

Scroll down far enough and there's a wrist shot of the Sea Wolf for you.  BTW, my wrist size is somewhere between 6 3/4" - 7"
This watch is smaller than most my other watches and definitely feels it.  However, in the photo it seems to look larger than I actually perceive it in person for some reason.  In any case, size certainly lends itself to the "vintage" factor and in my mind makes recognizing it as such that much easier.  I've gotten a fair number of comments from this particular watch, not really what I strive for but interesting none the less.  I've never run into anyone else wearing a vintage Zodiac.  In fact, the only other vintage watches I've ever encountered in the wild, of the same "sporty" vein as the Sea Wolf, is an Omega or a Rolex.  With Rolex being the most common by a 100 miles.

I'll admit I'm biased but I don't think Zodiac loses any ground to the other brands.  I'm unable to give a reason for why Zodiac lags behind some of the other brands in value.  They definitely succeeded in creating a brand identity for them selves and their designs have truly stood the test of time.  There's an undeniable sense of savoir faire regarding vintage Sea Wolfs, GMTs, and other "tool" watches produced by Zodiac during the Sixties and Seventies.  I really don't think any other brand compares.  Sure other brands may have sold more units but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that proportionally Zodiacs found their way onto more wrists of men performing those difficult tasks many of us have come to take for granted than any other brand.  This in my mind makes them far more valuable.

Just my two cents.

[smithrjd]

Well I can say this for a fact, as a young sailor I could not afford a Rolex. The Exchange did have Zodiac Seawolfs, back in '72 that is what I bought, glad I still have it. Several others did as well. I believe that is where Zodiac got it reputation, a no nonsense watch that did not cost a fortune that kept time and just plain worked. Always thought that they looked great as well.   

[rplace]

OK, things are moving along nicely. I have a line on a 70s Zodiac that if the seller is telling the truth (I feel they are - have warm fuzzy feelings) it is from the original owner, recently serviced and we have agreed on price. Unfortunatly they did not think to save paperwork from jeweler so I have no way to verify service. They state watch is in good working order, keeps correct time and like I said recent service.

Any specifice questions I should ask regarding zodiacs in particular to get me over the top? Any red flags?

This will be my first vintage watch and I must say the hunt is rather fun over just going to a store and plunking down $$$ on what excites you on the wrist. I have convinced myself that I can live with a smaller size and that is might actually be a nice change.

Thanks so much for all the help.

[Sea Wolf]

Post pics of the watch and many people will be able to help.

[Butch]

Most watchmakers will transfer the warranty on a service. Ask them to go back to the watchmaker.

[rplace]

Most watchmakers will transfer the warranty on a service. Ask them to go back to the watchmaker.

Seller seem to have gone dark for last 20+ hours. All was well until I asked for the name/number of the Jeweler. I don't even need the warrany transferred, I just want the date the service was performed and a 3 minute conversation with the jeweler since the service paperwork is not available. In short just looking to know for sure it was cleaned/lubed and in decent working order. Hope starting to fade

[Butch]

Hang in there, people just get busy sometimes.

[rplace]

Bummer time to start over. Guess I should not have pressed the service issue too much. They were very nice people and no reason to doubt them...but you just never know. Wife was selling it for husband he put it back on and decided to keep it for the time being. At least they got back to me. Back to the drawing board.

[Butch]

What model are you looking at again?

[rplace]

What model are you looking at again?

GMT....but I really like that Orange/Black seawolf you have for sale and the yellow checker board in your personal collection is sublime. I was thinking GMT as I don't have one and like the complication. Also traveling to europe this fall and thought it might make a good travel watch.

[Butch]

Indeed! One of my favs! Yeah, I just sold one and won't have another for a while.