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Author Topic: Enlighten me!  (Read 9163 times)

Offline Offshore

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Enlighten me!
« on: July 06, 2014, 10:00:20 pm »
121378527836

Anyone know the story behind this model? Late?
The ETA movement throws me.
Thanks guys.
Offshore

Offline Cobber

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2014, 12:05:31 am »
I saw that the other day, maybe yesterday. Unsigned case back, movement, and crown. It's definitely a later model dial. I don't recall ever seeing that one in any of the catalogs and at the price they're shooting for I'm not inclined to look. My gut tells me it's bogus but I could be wrong. It would be a rare Zodiac indeed if it left the factory without the typical engravings however.

Offline Butch

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2014, 06:16:54 am »
The model number on the back, the dial and hands, and the unsigned ETA movement are all trademarks of a 1990's model. I have never seen this model before nor one with a crown at 4 either.

I think it is legit. Probably one of the very first 1990's models that Willy Gad Monnier made. I would not have paid that price of course. I say early because it is not a member of any of the Point collections.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 11:22:46 am by Butch »
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Offline jon p

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2014, 09:50:47 am »
good looking watch, maybe $300., not $1200.but it SOLD!!  looks a LOT like a bulova quartz diver i own, case and bezel, and crown at "4". first one i have seen like this, the 2824 ETA seems to be 1990s Zodiac common. my 1990s blue point had it too. another Zodiac history mystery.

Offline Ultra-Vintage

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 11:27:07 am »
I have seen only one of those previously.  Like Butch said, it is a legit model but pretty uncommon.  Definitely not worth that price, you could buy a mechanical Zodiac Chrono from the same era for less.  I have found bezels for that model in NOS parts lots, but nothing else.

Offline Saloonkeeper

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2014, 03:12:25 pm »
Well, it obviously looks like a Heuer so Heuer must have made it................................  :butchLOL;  :what  :dh  :rofl

Offline Gatt

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2014, 04:51:35 am »
Hello everybody, I'm new in the forum.

A couple of years ago I saw another one. These are the pictures:









I've sent an e-mail to Zodiac and they kindly replied writing that, due to the many ownership changes, they dont have much about old references.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 04:59:07 am by Gatt »

Offline jon p

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2014, 07:07:08 am »
 :welc :welc welcome to the Zodiac forum. thanks for the great pics of your watch, you are helping to answer questions on this seldom seen model. BTW, NICE WATCH!! :#Clapping :#Clapping

Offline Gatt

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2014, 07:26:16 am »
Eh .... unfortunately it not mine. I still have the pictures becouse even if I collect divers watches I didnt know the watch at all and it was so similar to my Auricoste Spirotechnique. The rounded lugs are really similar to those of the french watch.

Offline Butch

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2014, 07:45:54 am »
I just reviewed the first catalog from Wily in ZC and do not see it there. It is possible that this model was actually made by DIXI which owned the brand in the 80's.

But this is all speculation.
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Offline Sea Wolf

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2014, 04:04:24 pm »
Butch, did DIXI come out with a Zodiac Catalog in the 80's ?

Would be a nice addition to the growing Zodiac Catalog collection.
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Offline Butch

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2014, 04:39:16 pm »
We only have one from DIXI, the one I said I hate in the comments. They were all Rado look alikes to me.
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Offline Gatt

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2014, 10:53:32 am »
Hello again, you probably already know, but I've just found this:

http://www.calibre11.com/heuer-1000m-spirotechnique/3/

Quote
Auricoste, TAG Heuer and Spirotechnique- the Link

So just what was the link between TAG Heuer, Auricoste and Spirotechnique? I spoke to Laurent Tordjmann at Auricoste to find the answer.Laurent’s father Claude was the exclusive French importer and distributor for Heuer and TAG Heuer going back to the 1970s and 80s and so knew TAG Heuer well, especially Willy Gad Monnier, who was one of the the senior principals at both Heuer and TAG Heuer.

While Auricoste had the licence to market the Spirotechnique co-brand watches, they did not have a suitable dive watch in their range to market as a Spirotechnique. And so, Claude Tordjmann used his connections with TAG Heuer to secure the rights to produce the Deep Dive under the Auricoste/ Spirotechnique branding.

In exchange, TAG Heuer not only gained some income from the licencing deal, but also negotiated the rights to use the Spirotechnique branding on a limited number of the watches using their logo.

And the last piece of the puzzle involved who made the watches. One of the secrets of the Swiss watch-making industry in the 1980s and 1990s was the use of contract manufacturers. And in the case of the TAG Heuer and Auricoste Spirotechnique, the watch was actually made by Zodiac. And who owned Zodiac? Why, Willy Gad Monnier, who had by now left TAG Heuer.

Here are a couple of shots of Zodiac’s version of the Spirotechnique watch:

<Click on the link above.>

The story does not end there, because the original intention of Auricoste was to fulfill the Military contract, but there were problems when Zodiac entered bankruptcy in 1997, and even more problems when Fossil bought Zodiac in 2001 and replaced the whole workforce.

According to Laurent Dodane (Principal of French watchmaker Dodane, who was also close to Spirotechnique, having made the first Spirotechnique watch under the “Triton” logo) in this thread, Spirotechnique became unhappy with Fossil owning Zodiac and so refused to accept supply of the watches, meaning that Auricoste now had stock that it could sell to the public.

And that explains why you could still buy an Auricoste Spirotechnique up until 2008, even though production had ended some years before.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 11:08:24 am by Butch »

Offline Gatt

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2014, 11:32:26 am »
Sorry for the (picture link) mistake.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 11:33:03 am by Gatt »

Offline Butch

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2014, 12:11:29 pm »
 ;)
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Offline Cobber

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2014, 08:29:48 am »
 :ur
Wow Gatt!  Only four posts and you've really come out swinging for the fences.  Thanks for joining the VZ Team as well :woohoo;
Just to make things more interesting is the belief that Zenith was actually making/assembling all the nineties era Zodiac watches.  A tidbit uncovered in Willy Gad Monnier's Zodiac Watch Reintroduction brochure on the reference site and some legal documents uncovered by poulbrix (vz team member) and posted/linked here:
http://www.vintagezodiacs.com/zforums/index.php/topic,2210.0.html

I like the military connection. May be what makes this sub genre of dive watch all the more collectable.

Offline Gatt

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2014, 01:47:28 am »
Well, I think I was only lucky. I saw the auction on the bay, i was lucky the seller was from Bologna (Italy) thus speaking italian (it helps a lot  :D), I was lucky it has had another ZODIAC Pro 200 meters a couple of years ago.

Maybe, maybe, in Bologna there was a ZODIAC reseller and someone bought his stock, after the acquisition by Fossil. He could not tell me the story of these watches but those pages at calibre11.com shed some light on the whole matter. I find very interesting that ZODIAC, TAG and Auricoste shared the same model(s) without any trouble and leaving to the consumer the final choice.

Lets hope no TAG-Heuer fan will have an heart attack now .... 

Anyway, about the military, well, that dial is one of the best I have ever seen as far as readability is concerned (maybe, even better than the Squale 50 atmos' one, with the same case, see the picture below). No wonder the french Marine Nationale chose it for his deep divers. The watch, with the very famous Von Buren-Squale case and the ETA movement, had probably an excellent price/quality ratio. 

I'm a former military recon diver and now a PADI Deep Diver and, IMHO, these watches are no way inferior to more famous (and horribly expensive) brands  ;)

Squale 50 atmos PVD, Marina Militare Italiana, circa 1980-1990:



P.S.: damned iPAD keyboard ....
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 04:31:43 am by Gatt »

Offline Cobber

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2014, 10:21:32 am »
Lets hope no TAG-Heuer fan will have an heart attack now .... 

Well, this is the bit I find most intriguing. Over at the On The Dash website someone posted an article about Poor Man's Heuer's all being made by Heuer for various other companies including Zodiac and Clebar. Seemingly without citing anything to base it on other than a close resemblance.  Apparently every Heuer chronograph collector or want to be has read this article or some derivative of it on another site and has been spreading this assumption around as though it's some substantiated fact.
This is a nice poke in the eye back at the Heuer boys that Heuer was actually buying watches from Zodiac and there is a bit more to substantiate it than just some passing resemblance.
Because you helped identify an ultra rare Zodiac with legit military cred., it's origins, and that Heuer was buying them from Zodiac, that's why I say: :ur
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 10:29:58 am by Cobber »

Offline Butch

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Re: Enlighten me!
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2015, 09:01:18 am »
Updating this topic. The seller of this watch auctions gave me permission to post the pictures of it on this site if I waited 6 mos. to do so. That would be today.

As an aside, it THINK that is a Zodiac catalog in the background.
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