Are the vintage Zodiac designs patented?

[Sea Wolf]

Could you start a vintage watch company and copy the vintage zodiac designs and put another watch name on
them?  I would think the patents would have run out by now or maybe not?  I have no plans for such a venture, unless
I win the big lottery, but it's just a thought that crossed my mind.

Throwback Vintage Watches?  Anyone win the lottery recently?

[Butch]

I know that they WERE patented at one time. I am not sure if a company could. If you google "Swiss Military Seawolf" you will find a model, but the name is jammed together. I am thinking that Fossil would probably go after anyone that did that.

At one time I had tried to interest Genender in doing that but he felt the market was too small. Basically you make what sells. Look at the 50 MM crap they sell (well!) today.

[Ultra-Vintage]

Very true Butch. 

People would be surprised to know that most of the rights to vintage names and designs are under current ownership, whether they are producing watches or not.  When the American companies went out in the late 50's and early 60's, their names and designs were bought by Asian holding firms that would occassionally make cheap quartz junk copies of their earlier watches.  This even applies to many of the "no-name" vintage brands that have not produced anything in decades, someone still likely owns the rights to any brand associated names or designs.

[Butch]

Too true! Wanna buy a Gruen? As we know, Genender bought the Zodiac brand from the bankruptcy court.

[JDS (Ohio)]

What those companies or individuals own are the trademarks, not necessarily designs.   Boutique watch companies, and even mainstream manufacturers, make homages to classic designs all the time, all perfectly legal.  Heck, even Zodiac was basically doing homages to TAGs with the Point series, and TAG was making Submariner homages.  Mark II for instance, has more demand than the owner can fill for homages to vintage Blancpains, Rolexes, etc.   I'm waiting for delivery of my Mark II Kingston now, a 40mm homage to the early '60s big crown 36mm "Bond" Submariner.

I have a hard time believing that any of those vintage Zodiac designs are covered by a current patent, here in the US at least.  Considering that the US patent office is pretty much denying all patents out of the gate these days, citing prior art, I also can't see them getting a new patent on them either.  However, what you can't do obviously, is copy a registered trademark.  Now that will get you the attention of an attorney, and their claim will be supported by the authorities (unless you're operating in China, that is).

Personally, I'd love to see Bill Yao do an homage to the 20 ATM Sea Wolves, possibly upsized a bit for our modern tastes, using modern materials and screw in crowns and casebacks.  They had the coolest dial and hand combinations around, and the enamel bezel was a thing of beauty.   I think that would really rock, but I don't think that realistically there's the demand to support it, nor that he'd ever get around to it even if there was.  Anyway, I'd probably miss the Zodiac logo on the dial.

BTW, speaking of Gruen, my first job out of high school was in the building directly across the street from Gruen's Cincinnati factory and headquarters building.  I think even the building I was in had at one point housed some Gruen operations, apparently during the war years.  Obviously, Gruen was long gone from the US by the time I came along in 1972, but those buildings are both still there today, on what was known as Time Hill for many years.

[Ultra-Vintage]

BTW, speaking of Gruen, my first job out of high school was in the building directly across the street from Gruen's Cincinnati factory and headquarters building.  I think even the building I was in had at one point housed some Gruen operations, apparently during the war years.  Obviously, Gruen was long gone from the US by the time I came along in 1972, but those buildings are both still there today, on what was known as Time Hill for many years.

I drove by there just a week or so ago.  I think that location closed down in either 57' or 59', but alot of people still refer to it as "Time Hill" even now.  The last I knew, the old Gruen factory was a technical school now.  It really stands out though, a huge German villa looking structure amid old standard looking factories and warehouses.

[JDS (Ohio)]

Right you are, it's The Union Institute now, mostly distance learning for people who want a BA or MA in business.

[Nateb123]

A little late to the convo here but what Fossil did is took the designs from Zodiacs and used them to make Diesels.  Smart move since they sold like crazy but it's like buying JLC and then sticking movements made in Bangaladesh in Reverso cases. :/  Just sad and strangely blasphemous in my mind.

So yes, only the owners of Zodiac can use the designs but since Fossil group is huge, there can be a lot of relative knockoffs.

[Yankees76]

I know that they WERE patented at one time. I am not sure if a company could. If you google "Swiss Military Seawolf" you will find a model, but the name is jammed together. I am thinking that Fossil would probably go after anyone that did that.

At one time I had tried to interest Genender in doing that but he felt the market was too small. Basically you make what sells. Look at the 50 MM crap they sell (well!) today.

Hey - don't diss the 50 mm watch! Some of us have wrists that are too big to support anything smaller than 44 mm. Small watches look feminine on some of us!

To answer the main question, I would suspect that the designs are not patented.

However, the name "Sea Wolf" is probably trademarked and owned by Fossil (though Breitling also has a Aeromarine Avenger "SeaWolf"), but design wise, you could design a copy or homage to a vintage Zodiac and have it made in China and sell it without worry about being threatened legally. Look what Invicta and hundreds of other companies have done with the Rolex Submariner design.

Call it or market it as a "Zodiac" though, and Fossil will be on you like stink on a monkey!