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Vintage Zodiac Moonphase with seconds subdial:Authentic?

Started by octane, October 07, 2013, 05:47:52 AM

octane

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum and my interest in vintage Zodiacs has brought me here.

I'm graduating college and had saved up some money to buy me a vintage moon-phase. Came across this Zodiac Moonphase which seemed a little unique compared to the other Zodiac moon-phases on the net, in the sense that this one has a seconds sub-dial on the moon-phase window.Also the case seems to have a part gold finish to it.Unfortunately I don't have movement pics as the seller has not opened the watch up.

Is this an authentic Zodiac or a parts put together assembled Zodiac as I have yet to come across a moon-phase with the "incabloc" lettering on its dial.

Please forgive me if my question sounds a little silly as I'm a total noob and $300 is a lot of money for me. Any inputs from the experts will be appreciated :helpme

Butch

Hi Octane,

Like you, I have never seen one like that either. I just checked some of the oldest catalogs and it is not in there. I would probably keep looking were it me. You might ask Ultra-Vintage though, he may give you some insight on what it is and what really happened here.
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octane

Thank you Butch for the reply. As I said I'm a newbie when it comes to watches of this vintage.On a lighter note, seems like I'm not the only one who's never seen this combination on a Zenith moon-phase :lolz;

When you say "keep looking", do you mean dropping this one and looking for other options or are you suggesting some more research on my part :(?In which case I have extensively looked around for such a combination and have drawn a blank. And the design seems real tempting to me as a I have developed a sort of attraction to the sub-dial for seconds with that moon-phase.Not to mention that it actually falls within my $300 budget.

jon p

 :welc  i have never seen one like this in all my years of zodiac collecting! it is in rough condition including the moon phase dial. just remember, a correct cleaning on one of these runs around $300. i know you are excited abou it and the price is within your budget, but if it was me i would PASS on buying it and hold out for one that has already been RESTORED/SERVICED. i have been in the same position before, and waited, and really found what i wanted later.it happened to me with a white dial sea wolf and a gold bezel GMT. just my opinion. you wont spend as much doing that in the long run.

octane

Quote from: jon p on October 07, 2013, 09:01:38 AM
:welc  i have never seen one like this in all my years of zodiac collecting! it is in rough condition including the moon phase dial. just remember, a correct cleaning on one of these runs around $300. i know you are excited abou it and the price is within your budget, but if it was me i would PASS on buying it and hold out for one that has already been RESTORED/SERVICED. i have been in the same position before, and waited, and really found what i wanted later.it happened to me with a white dial sea wolf and a gold bezel GMT. just my opinion. you wont spend as much doing that in the long run.

Thank you for the warm welcome Jon.

As you say, it does look a little crude to be honest but I thought the somewhat average pricing would offset some of the servicing costs I'd have incurred later especially with with similar conditioned moon phases going for twice the price.Most online sales claiming a recent service aren't believable either ::)

The bigger question that remains, however, is whether the watch is authentic or a mish-mash of parts :-\

Ultra-Vintage

That one would be a real crapshoot in regards to originality.  I have never seen one with that configuration, but it does not mean that they didn't make it.  To me, it looks like a moonphase style made by some of the other Swiss companies, not Zodiac.  The dial looks reasonably correct, however, considering that it is not marked Swiss at the bottom and the way that the subseconds dial is done, it is very possibly an older redial that has now gained the right look of age.  So, (without actually seeing it) my guess is that they took one of the endless numbers of Swiss no-name 1950's moonphases and redialed it as a Zodiac decades ago.

However, besides all of that, the condition alone would discourage me from buying it.  The case is really rough: all lug tops extremely worn, the case sides are really damaged from dozens of inexperienced people opening it with an incorrect tool, and on and on.  Watches with cases like that can run into moisture problems (among other issues) from not being able to seal properly, besides not looking too attractive. 

My advice is to avoid this one and buy a nice 3DMP from a trustworthy seller that is in nice condition, serviced and ready to go.

Butch

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octane

Quote from: Ultra-Vintage on October 07, 2013, 11:45:54 AM
That one would be a real crapshoot in regards to originality.....

However, besides all of that, the condition alone would discourage me from buying it.  The case is really rough: all lug tops extremely worn, the case sides are really damaged from dozens of inexperienced people opening it with an incorrect tool, and on and on.  Watches with cases like that can run into moisture problems (among other issues) from not being able to seal properly, besides not looking too attractive. 

My advice is to avoid this one and buy a nice 3DMP from a trustworthy seller that is in nice condition, serviced and ready to go.

Thank you so much all of you here are absolutely wonderful people saving a noob like the pains of discovering that it was a transaction gone wrong at a later stage. :ur

Needless to say I am not going ahead with the transaction.Will keep an eye out for the right watch.Hopefully I'll come across it here.

pknopp

 If you could get more information on this and prove it to be legit, even with the problems it would be a nice addition. I saw you list this on another forum and I had hoped I would find it here.

I tend to think it's something someone has pieced together. It's too bad you couldn't get a pic of the movement but perhaps there is a reason it wasn't provided. When I was looking for one I looked at auction after auction after auction and a ton of pictures and never saw one with the separate second hand.

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