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Author Topic: Band obsessives  (Read 11786 times)

Online Butch

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Band obsessives
« on: February 16, 2012, 04:00:11 PM »
You know, we have been talking about bands a lot lately (NOT my favorite subject, but I go with the flow). Has anyone gone through the catalogs and counted up the number of different style bands on the Sea Wolf or the GMT over the years? Ditto for the Olympos and the Glorious? I mean we have the diver, the Kreisler, and the JB Champion. And some people even think they Chinese Kreisler too. Who knows?
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Offline zaniac

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 04:55:04 PM »
Or how about in the smaller 1971 catalog, the Sea Wolfs, Super Sea Wolf Chrono, all Chronos, but one and the GMT and World Time say at the bottom a different model # with a "Tropic" Strap. I've never seen any of these still with the Tropic strap, but even more surprising, Zodiac changed the model # on the ones with the Tropic? If Zodiac was so picky about bands, I think it's worth discussion. But I know I'm in the minority ;)
Chris

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 05:44:24 PM »
I imagine, like the leather bands, the tropic ones fell apart and were replaced. Shoot, we are lucky to find a Zodiac with the metal band if it was worn for 30 years. I would expect the model number to be different on the one with a rubber band for filling orders.

As I said in another thread, the 71 cat is a real Zodiac cat and printed in Switzerland and not one from North America and Trauner. Notice that it, unlike the others, does not have the Trauner name and address on it. BTW, I know a guy in Spain who has a lot of Zodiac literature in Spanish and is scanning them for me. These should be real Zodiac and not Trauner. He has 2 catalogs that we do not have, so the pictures of the watches will be great to explore. In a couple more months we will have a lot more to add to ZodiacCatalogs.com I hope.

As for you being the only one interested in the bands, far from it! I love it when I find one on a band. But if it is not then leather works, (not a big rubber, NATO, or kortz GMT kinda guy  ;) ) and I will not spend a fortune on a metal band by itself. But hey, I drive American and he drives Japanese, right? I thank you for bringing up your thoughts on the Chinese Kreislers. You made me think about it when I had always discounted them. Even Omega and Rolex rarely last 30-40 years, so no surprise the Zodiac bands are not on our watches.

Thanks for the participation Zaniac. I assure you I don't know it all and I am always learning something new about Zodiacs.
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Offline Sea Wolf

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 05:53:34 PM »
I am obsessed with the original bands.  I have purchased a lot of them over the years.
I had no original bands for years and then slowly was able to acquire many.

I have one that I am waiting to put on a nice chrono.

Look in the 71 large catalog the Chronographs page 30-31, the snake skin like ss bands.
I got one of those almost NOS waiting for another Zodiac in the future.
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Online Butch

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 05:59:15 PM »
UdaMAN Sea Wolf.

Keep the faith alive Brother.

(I told you guys he drove Japanese.)
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Offline Sea Wolf

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 06:23:15 PM »
For the record, I don't drive Japanese.  A lot of times these references go right over my head.
Maybe it wasn't about cars, I just don't know.
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Online Butch

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 06:27:48 PM »
My bad, and you were not the he I referred to. I just meant that we all like something different. We're a team, I am not crazy about bands and you are. I just could not pass that up though.  :P

I meant the rest of it though!
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Offline zaniac

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 07:20:17 AM »
Sea Wolf, I know the snakeskin band well. I've looked for one for quite a while for a chrono. I had a 17mm straight end that I ended up selling because with the straight ends, it just didn't look right on any Zodiac I had. What size lug does yours fit? Is it the curved or straight ends.
Actually, if I recall, the snakeskin one is a Kreisler. In fact, in the big 71 catalog, on the pages you referenced, the GMT chrono seems to be sporting the Kreisler band that started that whole other thread. The $200+ one.
Uh-oh, Butch, the Kreisler theory might be true.
So who's the maker of your snakeskin band, Sea Wolf?
Chris

Offline zaniac

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 07:30:15 AM »
Butch, thanks for your comments. I do enjoy finding a "correct" band. But seeing how you said the salesman would put almost any band on for a customer, "correct" is very subjective.
I will pay a good amount for a band that is pictured with a Zodiac in a catalog. Or at least one that fits the lugs snug and matches the styling of the watch. I'm not a fan of leather bands. They seem too commonplace and what you do if you just want a band on the watch. I have a gold moon phase that had a nice leather band. But when I found an NOS, gold Kreisler stretch, WOW it just made the watch pop. It compliments the watch perfect and vice versa.
Great news about more catalogs, I look forward to seeing the pics.
Chris

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2012, 07:45:05 AM »
I agree on the right band making it pop. I do tend to try and pick up period pieces that are unique looking. I do not mind a scissors type band either. I also try to buy exotic leather bands too that are about 30 years old or from countries that do not ban them.
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Offline Sea Wolf

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2012, 09:13:05 AM »
Zaniac, my snakeskin is Kreisler - Hong Kong, straight ends.  Maybe I bought it from you?
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Offline zaniac

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2012, 01:12:36 PM »
Sea Wolf, the one I sold was at least a year if not two years ago, but maybe. I've been looking for a curved end, 19 or 20mm and have never seen one.
Butch, looks like further proof for Kreisler bands being on 70's Zodiacs since Sea Wolf mentioned his is a Kreisler. The snakeskin and the $200+ thread starter are seen on almost all the chronos in the big 71 catalog.
Please know, I don't see this as a I'm right and you're wrong deal. I just want to try and learn what some of those bands are in the catalogs. It will help to know if someone's trying to "create" a Zodiac band or if it's legit ;)
Chris

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2012, 03:29:18 PM »
Not at all man. I love learning new things about the brand and appreciate the help and interest. Just to be clear though, my issue was with the China made Kreislers.

SW, is you Kresler US or Chinese made?
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Offline zaniac

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2012, 04:41:03 PM »
It looks like he said Hong Kong in his post. That's what I was referring to, the Hong Kong Kreislers.
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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2012, 05:08:39 PM »
Sorry, I have my thread mixed up. I thought we were talking about the one on his orange SW. Yeah, I knew his snake skin thingie was from HK.

I dunno man. Could be, I personally would not present a HK Kreilser as original just yet. I will be interesting to find one on a watch in a box from the 70's though.
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Offline Sea Wolf

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2012, 06:27:22 PM »
My SW band is NOT from HK.
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Online Butch

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2012, 07:45:12 PM »
I did not think so, thanks SW.

I was thinking about this over dinner. (Yes dear, I AM paying attention to you.) Let use the large 71 and the 75 catalog as they both have real pictures that are very clear and large. Let's see if we can find a HK Kreisler band that matches one of those pictures.

Just so you know, I have emailed a couple sellers of some SSTs only to find out there is NO markings inside the band and they both agreed that this was a case of a clasp being moved to a band.
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Offline Sea Wolf

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2012, 08:49:24 PM »
I do not see a straight end snakeskin in either 71 catalog.  This straight end could have been for one of those
Clebar 2 register chrono dive watches you see a lot of on the bay.  I don't know.  The mystery continues.
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Offline Ultra-Vintage

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2012, 05:03:01 PM »
Wow, who knew that the watch itself is nothing more than a mere accessory to the original band?  ;D
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 05:03:22 PM by Ultra-Vintage »

Offline zaniac

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2012, 07:40:03 AM »
I did not think so, thanks SW.

I was thinking about this over dinner. (Yes dear, I AM paying attention to you.) Let use the large 71 and the 75 catalog as they both have real pictures that are very clear and large. Let's see if we can find a HK Kreisler band that matches one of those pictures.

Just so you know, I have emailed a couple sellers of some SSTs only to find out there is NO markings inside the band and they both agreed that this was a case of a clasp being moved to a band.

Butch, don't we already have those examples? That band that brought over $200 sure looks like the same band in the large 71 catalog on page 29 on the Super Sea Wolf, the coffin case Sea Wolf and on page 30 on the Super Sea Wolf Chrono and even on the GMT Chrono. Now I realize the lug width and type(straight or curved) may differ on the coffin case and the GMT, but the $200+ band had 19mm, curved ends which would fit the SSW and the SSW chrono perfect.
Also, the snake skin example Sea Wolf has is shown often on the chronos on pages 30-31. I realize Sea Wolf's example has straight ends, but I don't see why that would change anything on the maker. It's not like Champion would make the curved ends examples and Kreisler would make the straight ends example.
I agree, the only TRUE way to know is to find an NOS example of one of these watches. But between the $200+ example and especially Sea Wolf's snake skin, those would have to be Kreislers on the above mentioned pages. Maybe still Kreisler USA, but nevertheless, Kreisler.
Either way, it's always fun to learn more about Zodiac, even if it's only the band ;) Just think, we could be spending all this time on Zodiac buckles instead :D
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 07:42:56 AM by zaniac »
Chris

Offline TJW

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 09:39:39 PM »
I may have missed this somewhere, but did Zodiac actually fabricate any of their own bands or was this always outsourced. I have a couple of the jubilee style bands and like them very much. Really comfortable.

Offline Sea Wolf

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2012, 01:10:50 AM »
What is this:

#200651241555

The ends do not look right, but the band sure looks like a Champion Zodiac band minus the Zodiac clasp.

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Offline zaniac

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2012, 10:59:56 AM »
I like the all gold(polished and brushed) look like the original all stainless ones. Instead of the stainless and gold that we're used to seeing.
Since the band is made by JB Champion, I'm sure they made plenty of this style for any "generic" watch. After all, they're in it to make money so why limit a particular band to only one type of watch. All they have to do is make different style and size end pieces and a plain clasp and now it fits many different watches.
If that had curved end pieces, I'd be all over it.
Thanks for posting.
Chris

Offline zaniac

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2012, 08:39:40 AM »
290652705390
I've been in contact with the winner of this auction in regards to the Zodiac band on it. It's a Kreisler Stelux. However, by the photos he sent me, I can't tell if it's Hong Kong or USA. I don't believe it is a clasp only replace because the clasp font is like other Zodiac Kreislers I've seen and it is labeled Kreisler Stelux.
Now whether it was originally on the Clebar Chrono, is another discussion altogether. I know they swapped bridges, case backs and dials, but bands? I guess it's possible. It seems to fit the lugs nicely.
Chris

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2012, 09:24:36 AM »
I am sure the swapped bands. The reason you see marriages between Zodiacs and Clebars is that if they ran out of a part in assembly but had one for the other brand they would continue to assemble and ship.

AMC used to do this shit all the time. I will never buy one again, the 1967 Rebel had FOUR different clutch plates for that year, from various other car companies.
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Online Butch

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2012, 04:18:09 PM »
Back to this discussion. There is an auction right now and I asked the seller about the Kreisler band. It says "Kreisler Stelux Stainless Steel" and does not say were it was made. The curious thing is that the clasp on it is the later longer one. The mystery continues.

Auction 110848638466, black and orange SW with a acrylic bezel.
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Offline Scorpio55

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2012, 03:42:45 PM »
I read the thread and see you are talking about a certain type band, but I have noticed something about the band on the SST I purchased off of eBay.
When I purchased my 1st SST in 1973, the band was pretty much the same as all clasp type bands of the era.
You could adjust the band by removing a link and or @ the clasp by adjusting the pins.
So when I received my latest SST, and wanted to adjust the band, I discovered something I have never seen in any watch band?
You can not remove any links from the band, you can only adjust by the clasp pins.
When you look close @ the links of the band, you notice something odd, looks like there is a flexable metal wire running thru the center of ea. link that ties the band together, and as hard as I try, there is no pins nor attachments other than the flexable wire thru the middle of the band from end to end.  I have never seen this type band on any watch?

 :wtf
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 03:44:36 PM by Scorpio55 »
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Online Butch

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2012, 07:03:20 PM »
Take some pictures and show us.
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Offline Scorpio55

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2012, 10:47:49 PM »
OK ;D
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Offline zaniac

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2012, 05:26:35 PM »
Back to this discussion. There is an auction right now and I asked the seller about the Kreisler band. It says "Kreisler Stelux Stainless Steel" and does not say were it was made. The curious thing is that the clasp on it is the later longer one. The mystery continues.

Auction 110848638466, black and orange SW with a acrylic bezel.

Maybe Kreisler went with a longer clasp later on to copy JB's longer clasp. I've only seen one other Kreisler that didn't say the country of origin. I would think Hong Kong also.
I've forgotten the user's name, but the guy who just scored the near NOS Astrographic for $400. I'm betting the band is a Kreisler.
Chris

Offline Scorpio55

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2012, 10:13:48 PM »
Take some pictures and show us.
Camera battery is charging, but I did find out something while looking @ this item on eBay: 290689368696
Upon looking @ this band I opened up the clasp on the SST I just purchased and have worn about everyday and is keeping perfect time.Yes I know we are talking bands on this thread, so here is what's inside the clasp of my SST.
JB surrounded by a tri-angle, CHAMPION
Stainless Steel USA
1/40 10KT RGA Trim
And this band is the same as you see in the ebay listing, some piece attached in the middle of the band links, holds it all together.
Now from what I know, here is what I have, a stainless steel band w/link cores of SS wrapped in 10kt gold.  The clasp is 10kt and a SS attachment that holds ea. link in place.
I was surprised to discover this.
I do not believe the seller who I bought this from was aware of a semi-wrapped gold band, was on the watch!
Butch, any ideas on this.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 10:16:52 PM by Scorpio55 »
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Offline Scorpio55

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2012, 10:27:13 PM »
Take some pictures and show us.
Look close @ the links and the centers of the band.
You can see the gold wrapped links and the part holding the band together in the center of the links.
Hope this helps Butch.
I will take a photo of the clasp later.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 10:29:11 PM by Scorpio55 »
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Online Butch

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2012, 07:29:33 AM »
Not sure I am following this. It is a gold plated band, and they save money by using SS on the underside?
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Offline Scorpio55

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2012, 06:20:47 PM »
Not sure I am following this. It is a gold plated band, and they save money by using SS on the underside?
No, there is no plating, the band link is made up of a SS core w/another piece wrapped around it, look close @ the picture and you will see that there is 2 parts to the individual link, this outer skin on the SS is made of gold.
This SST I am sure might not have been your average version, heavy gold plating on the case, the face is Tiger Eye I believe, the band is a composite of SS and Gold, to include a Gold Clasp.  I do not know that much about Zodiac's differant combonations/mods made to their watchs, but this one turns heads by everybody who sees it.  The watch seems to me to be heavier than the 1st one I owned.
Overall, now that I see in no small part some of the watch is not just plated but is made of Gold, just makes the purchase all the more sweeter.
So are you aware butch of Zodiac producing a SST like this,  again the band is a JB Champion w/a Zodiac symbol on the clasp.


















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Offline Sea Wolf

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2012, 04:04:57 PM »
#140733105949

I didn't know other brands used this same band.
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Offline zaniac

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2012, 12:39:36 PM »
Scorpio - You remove links by pushing up gently, but firmly on one of the two tangs sticking down from the underside of the band with a small tool. This will loosen the top piece enough to pull it off. The bottom piece will just fall off. Do this on both sides of the link or links you want to remove and then they will just snap back together with force from your fingers when you're ready to put it back together. I have this exact band on a square Astrographic. The same style also came on some Super Sea Wolfs. I like the design because it's easy to remove or install links.
Chris

Offline Scorpio55

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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2012, 10:25:55 PM »
Scorpio - You remove links by pushing up gently, but firmly on one of the two tangs sticking down from the underside of the band with a small tool. This will loosen the top piece enough to pull it off. The bottom piece will just fall off. Do this on both sides of the link or links you want to remove and then they will just snap back together with force from your fingers when you're ready to put it back together. I have this exact band on a square Astrographic. The same style also came on some Super Sea Wolfs. I like the design because it's easy to remove or install links.
Thanks for the info.  I am new @ this hobby and I am still behind the curve,but thanks to people here on the Forum, I am learning. :ur
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Re: Band obsessives
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2012, 12:24:24 PM »
Zaniac, I think I finally have the proof I need to agree with you on the Kreisler Steelux bands being original. Look for a new thread shortly.
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